Epic Dasaria

Oosey · Post by **Oosey** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:39 am

I'm sure most of you are aware that in the next expansion of NWN, epic levels will be included (up to lvl 40) I was wondering what people thought about having this in Dasaria or not? Did the original PnP game include Epic levels? and would it be too much work to adjust the world?

Depheant · Post by **Depheant** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:44 am

Personal opinion- epic levels should be given to Epic characters. I'd like it seen as something more controlled than gaining Prestige Classes.

Not everyone should have one, what's the point then? No, I would love to see only a few that have this. In real life, there are only a few that have risen to epic status if you will; Caesar, MacArthur, Churchill, Rommel, the Red Baron [I can't spell his name. ;P]. People like that, the best of aces should have them.

Oosey · Post by **Oosey** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 2:53 am

I agree and the bonus is that powergamers would not be very powerful

Rati Festa · Post by **Rati Festa** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 3:07 am

OOC

Imagine how powerful some of the 40th levelers would be its frightening I cant see it being very balanced if we have loads on. Deph's points make a lot of sense but I can see some issues in the PVP.. how many 40th level chars could Dasaria realistically support? Perhaps having different stages of epic might be easier to support .. like letting them reach 25th then wait a while and see what problems that occur.. then 30th and so on.

Loki · Post by **Loki** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 4:24 am

OOC -

Either all or none.. my vote would be for none - if you have a selective process then it's elitism and that's just going to bring bad blood - maybe being granted the ability to go up a single level as incredible reward for a event would be fair enough but to allow a select few? On what criteria? The only criteria i can see is going to be judgement based and that is a can of worms that seems best left unopened..

Jerio Caine · Post by **Jerio Caine** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 6:40 am

Then check this one out: Items... Level requirements... The "ace" Would be so incredibly strong...

Post by **jhr4n** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 8:58 am

To answer your question, the origional game did not have epic levels, but they are available in an officially sanctioned book, I think it's called the "Epic Level Handbook" Opinions in the PnP RPG community vary a great bit, but most people I know consider it a munchkin game. To be honest, I've never played in a epic level campaign, but I do know one or two people who aren't munchkins and who played in and enjoyed it.

Depheant has said that before, in a thread a bit back, I felt like Loki last time. This time I'm not so sure though. Call me a nut case, but doesn't it bother you when a new guy shows up and has a level 20 within a week? I'm not trying to be elitist, but come on! Those people aren't even playing the same game I am. Maybe if the criteria is real straight forward. You have to be registered on the forums for at least 5 weeks, or something like that.

Just as big an issue though, is what are they gonna do? Eventually I defile will be soloable, and then what? There aren't any areas that would really challange them. If you are gonna do it, I like Rati's idea, except one level at a time. Kick the server limit up to 21 and wait a week or two, then kick it up to 22, etc. And don't kick it up until there is a new area they can play in.

Oh, I don't know. I'm still making up my mind. I'd say though, for now, disable them. Dasaria just isn't ready for it yet.

Commander James · Post by **Commander James** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 9:35 am

I have not tried the epic levels in the new game.
But I did play the old gold box demi-god rules way back when.
I didn't like them, it doubled or tripled the stuff you had to keep up with.

Rowan · Post by **Rowan** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 10:41 am

My gut reaction is cap at 20, it will cut down on power gamers who will migrate to servers where Epic levels are enabled
*sheds tear at the sad loss

*

Epic levels being DM given, Jeez I wouldn't like to be the DM that decides. Think of the moaning and complaining. Why them and not me, I role play Ad Nauseum.

Server balance as already mentioned where am I going to go with my Demi-God character? Kill Gnolls, slaughter Raven in one blow?

Just a few thoughts
*lies down in darkened room suffering from brain ache*

Harold Holdfast · Post by **Harold Holdfast** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 11:58 am

Rowan wrote:Server balance as already mentioned where am I going to go with my Demi-God character? Kill Gnolls, slaughter Raven in one blow?

Where? How about to town, to role-play. Let's face it, if 20+ is restricted to DM-allowed-only, and they reward based on good RP....then the Epic characters will get to 25 or 30 or whatever WHEN THEY GET THERE. They should not be the type who rush off to get the next 5 levels in 1 day, or the DM probably made a poor choice (easily remedied by cutting them back down to 20 and taking away their epic status).

I mean, good grief...this is not rocket science, people. If you reward those who DO NOT ABUSE THE SYSTEM, you shouldn't have Epic-level abusers.

Hikui · Post by **Hikui** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:01 pm

In pnp I played with epic levels once. It got old fast. We got bored and killed all the gods. Not much to do at that point

I like the idea of using them as a reward, but think all DMs must agree to give it one level at a time this way no dm can be called on playing favorites.

Besides that idea I would say not to include them only because it will create an evoriment that I think is against the spirit of Dasar.

Jerio Caine · Post by **Jerio Caine** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:07 pm

In pnp I played with epic levels once. It got old fast. We got bored and killed all the gods.

To prevent that from happening we can make our gods like Immortal?
Or at least lvl 60

Wow that sounded sci-fi

Holly · Post by **Holly** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:30 pm

My opinion is that Epic levels should be DM given only. They should decide amongst themselves who might or might not abuse the priviledge.

Epic character's should be those leaders who not only distinguish themselves as IC leaders of characters, but also OOC influential players. This may sound elitist, but that isn't my intention. The fact that there is PvP emphasis on this server would make it extremely unfair if epic levels were given to only a few, unless there was considerable planning of who and how these levels would be allocated.

Just an Example:

If there were 10 epic characters allowed on the server, it could go like this:

1. The High Councillor of the Church of Nergal
2. The Brigadier of the Redboots
3. The High Priest of Girru
4. The Council Leader for the Council of Lords.
5. The Thane of Torinvork Hall
6. The Chief Renegade
7. The High Templar of Asher
8. etc, etc...

Of course, this is only a brain-stormed idea on my lunch break, but Epic levels could be fun, so long as there is DM involvement to achieve some control, and there is a Story-Based reason for those characters' Grand-Heroism.

The G Elle · Post by **The G Elle** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 12:47 pm

Holly wrote: 1. The High Councillor of the Church of Nergal
2. The Brigadier of the Redboots
3. The High Priest of Girru
4. The Council Leader for the Council of Lords.
5. The Thane of Torinvork Hall
6. The Chief Renegade
7. The High Templar of Asher
8. etc, etc...
9. The Eldest Brother of The G' Elle family

Of course, this is only a brain-stormed idea on my lunch break, but Epic levels could be fun, so long as there is DM involvement to achieve some control, and there is a Story-Based reason for those characters' Grand-Heroism.

Kin)) That sounds good to me Holly, thanks

Trinny · Post by **Trinny** » Tue Sep 23, 2003 1:01 pm

Hmm. not sure.

I would worry about DM awarded epic levels; awarding an entire level once a char is past 3rd or 4th is too much in my book, especially an epic one. And I would worry that having any kind of 'bar' would create a clique that would put new players off of bothering to play dasaria - oh look, it's actually run by that bunch of elites over there.. why bother trying? - If you do want to 'vet' people to see if they are 'worthy' then *see comment on pure RP down the page a bit...* and make that a standard of play from the outset.

I would like to see maybe, anyone can continue to gain XP past 20th level, but you get none for killing anything, instead you can only gain XP through roleplay and DM run campaigns. Then DM's can weigh up how the character contributed , how worthy their actions were of the title 'Epic'. - Did they *Lead* the the people of Dasaria & despte thier fraying alliances rallied them around to a common cause and kept it all together? etc. etc..

OR giving these characters no quest options - no quests and/or kills aimed at chars of their level.. let them hunt for XP but let it fade away as it does for normal level progression.. by the time they are 28th - 30th they'll be getting so little XP for anything they kill, and needing so much to progress they will have little choice but to RP to progress.

Aside from all this though, from following the arguments of powergaming etc.. and noticing actions that have been taken, I really think Dasaria should be advertised as a pure RP server, the RP'ers here bitch about it soo much and DM's are taking measures to simply nerf powergaming that it feels like the people who play here and admin dasaria don't want powergamers around end of story..

And the XP gradient through the quests available from 1st-20th should be balanced out, as at the moment there are 'empty' spots and 'sweet' spots as far as character progression through XP goes. My pet quest here is the Shai.. I played for months to get 13th with Trinny then did the shai 3 times and was nearly 15th... Surprised the hell out of me. and is doing a quest 3 times bad when you are forced to repeat the dasaria quests suillions of times anyway?

*puts hand over mouth* oops, sorry, I'm ranting arent I? ;P

Some pennies of my own.