I think paladins are too strong

Loki · Post by **Loki** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 2:38 pm

Gunak wrote:Another server that I play on from time to time gives Paladins a device which detects evil auras, as well as how strong they are. Perhaps this could be looked into, and a similiar device given to our pallys upon character creation? Just an idea.

That would be excellent.. I agree with Holly Pallys should be able to know who is evil and who is not as a divine power.. after all this isn't something that aids anything other than roleplay...

Judas · Post by **Judas** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:08 pm

lmao .. Ok .. I’m sorry about this Meld but I just gota say it

Firstly you wouldn’t have to hope someone is evil to justify your actions if you didn’t attack and kill people without it being self defence, or in the defence of someone else

Attacking and killing 4 characters coz they called you a few names than ran away, 4 characters who arn’t KoS I might add, is nothing more than evil

And having an arrest record 10 times longer than me ! .. Well …

I would like to read these guild lines if you get round to weighting them … it would give the Bodysnatchers something to inspire to

Sorry mate .. I know I’m exaggerating, and I’m not trying to pick on you, but I see good characters committing evil acts all the time and I just don’t get it

jekyl81 · Post by **jekyl81** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:09 pm

i promised that i was thru, but i have to say that this idea is really good... it's something every pally should have.

Meldvion · Post by **Meldvion** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:21 pm

Judas, Mel did not attack them because they called him names. He attacked them because they are what they are... E V I L. I know this is overly simplicified but that is the bottom line. They are evil, paladins fight evil. I did have more than that in my head when I decided to slay them, however. It's never as simple as "you're evil, you die".

And since when is ridding the land of evil just that? Evil? You lost me Judas.

Judas · Post by **Judas** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:50 pm

Look Meld .. Buddy … I don’t expect hardly anyone to agree with me on this, it’s just something I think and I’m sure I’m in the minority

Imagine if you will : A dark evil lord walks through the village he is ruling over .. some cheeky git who is aloud to be there by ‘law’ starts to get lippy .. What dose the dark and evil lord do ? .. Well .. He crushes the mans skull as an example … simple

Now imagine if you will : A goodly Knight is walking through the village he is protecting .. Some cheeky git that is aloud to be there by ‘law’ starts to get lippy .. What dose the goodly knight do ? … Well .. He crushes the mans skull as an example … I’m sorry but that just doesn’t fly with me

There is about a zillion and one things the goodly knight could do to ‘not’ tolerate evil in that situation … Pally’s are charismatic after all … He could use his wit to make the cheeky man look silly, inspiring the villagers around to not follow the cheeky mans example … If the Knight thought the cheeky man was really up to something bad then he could work towards getting him locked up, or even band from the village

Look I cant tell anyone how to play there character, and like I say, not many people will agree with me on this …. But that’s the way I feel on the matter

Meldvion · Post by **Meldvion** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 3:58 pm

Actually, he shouldn't crush the man's skull if you ask me. As I see it, when Nergalites (your my example here, nothing personal) are in town the goodly knight (if he is lawfull good) should respect the laws of the town he is in. Now, the thing was that I followed the people outside of town... see the difference? The law of the town is no more and the law of Girru takes hold. And his law will not allow any "defilers" walking the surface.

I know I have not always played like this but after a loooong night I saw the light, so to speak.

Sorry that I got you wrong, Judas.

Judas · Post by **Judas** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:15 pm

Yes I do see the difference

Look, it was more a light hearted post to tell you the truth … when you said “I have to hope the people I’m killing are evil” I found it really funny

I know it was a touchy subject, but I posted it anyway .. Honest, I’ve got nothing against you at all

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:23 pm

Many Paladins are played as obtuse thinkers with regard to evil, which means no mercy towards known evil opponents. Now, if paladins had detect evil as an ability, there would no longer be any question as to Meldvion's cause or action, would there? Paladins exist to fight evil. The Player and the Character Meldvion take this part of being a paladin as the most important. Meldvion Role-Plays this aspect continuously, although many evil elements in town are very good at provoking graceless behavior in paladins and other "Goodly" characters. That does not make them evil. It makes them hot-tempered. If you don't want to have a paladin attack you, don't piss on them.

Some people play paladins as omnibenevolent, meaning they are always ready to accept dark souls back into the light, but that isn't the only way. Holly used to be this way, when she was a younger character. now she is much more militant with regard to those she deems "Unsavable".

Holly was arrested once, for attacking Maelstrom Sin'Arafell in town one day. She beat him to the first blow as he and another stalked her as she prayed, befoer it was illegal to be undead in Daris. Holly was outnumbered, defeated, and jailed for doing what a paladin is supposed to do.

Now, can anyone say they have ever seen Holly commit an evil act, tell a lie, or do something unjust?

Holly · Post by **Holly** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:49 pm

That was me...and I promise to stop hogging the topic.

ironchicken · Post by **ironchicken** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:49 pm

Hey no cruelty to cats... or you will lose your paladinhood

Jimmy · Post by **Jimmy** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 4:57 pm

kasur mounden wrote:Firstly to Meldvion nice fight my friend what 30 secs there was of it hehe.
*Rubs lump on head*
Kell wrote
So. Would that mean we can axe it and make it +3 max? That's what happened to all the other weaponenhancing spells too.
Yes I have to say I agree with you Kell after the nerfing of some spells as a cleric I can enhance a weapon to +3 which lasts a few rounds not sure how many, but why should Paladins have the ability to have a +5 weapon & not only that it dispels ALL my buffs in a couple of hits & then I am dead one hit or more later.

More like 40 mins real time actually.

And Judas, killing people in town is chaotic, not evil (depending on why the killing happened and whatnot). For example, Danden Swift, my rogue has no regard for the law but he's certainly a good guy fighting for Dasaria. He kills Nerglings in town whenever he wants which is an act of good, but is very chaotic.

Who cares what stats the spell gives? Even if it was +1, light on hit, it's still a holy avenger! It's just extremely lame to get a Holy Avenger at will and totally degrades the Holy Avenger concept. As it stands now the spell is unbalancing, so remove it. Anyone really going to miss it? Istead of arguing for arguing's sake how many of you actually want to keep that spell? I don't think there would be many.

I say remove the spell and bring back the legendary status of the Holy Avenger. When I see Holly's Holy Avenger in action I want my jaw to drop on the ground. And I just don't want some other loser powergamed Pally who got to lv 20 in a day just casting Holy Sword when he's not even pure or worthy enough to wield one.

An idea Oose told me last night was that whenever you cast the spell have the Paladin lose a level. Not going to be used very often except in extreme circumstances.

Jimmy · Post by **Jimmy** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:05 pm

Without a Holy Avenger paladins really aren't overly strong. Meldvion kicks arse as he knows how to use a Paladin to their utmost ability. He's been playing as one for about 1 and a half years or something so he's definately learned how to unleash some hardcore smiting. Everyone is different and have different playing styles.

Paladins and Clerics have the same weakness... Dispel. Dispel them and they're like puppies. Get some UMD and some dispel scrolls and they'll fall easy. Even when dispelled I bet Meldvion could still be a challenge for some, because he knows exactly what he's doing.

I know of some mages players out there who could smoke meld into a pulp without the use of any timestop or any expansion spells. You know why? As they're tactics masters of the wizard class. I honestly feel I could beat Meld with Legnar, dispel, WoF and he's mine. Rogues can lay some traps and Meld's got no chance once they flank him while paralyzed/dazed. It's all about making the most out of your classes strengths, not dwelling on their weaknesses.

Sable · Post by **Sable** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:07 pm

for everyone whos bitching about their weapons and saying they deserve +5 stuff cause there god is on their shoulder or better or whatever ..
why is your god more powerful than mine? ive had nergal watching over me for a thousand years ( okay RL time a bit less than 2 years) and im still running around with +1 axes. so im evil so what? so i dont stand around in town chatting with the locals and get noticed for my dazzling rp. im a fiendish death machine come on now what do you expect. dinner parties? i chose my path and i accept the disdain from the misguided and self righteous

its all about combat skills anyways. i have no special items with free feats or enhancements. nothing anyone cant find.

and at last count i have yet to be beaten in a duel.

Loki · Post by **Loki** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 5:36 pm

Jimmy wrote: And Judas, killing people in town is chaotic, not evil (depending on why the killing happened and whatnot). For example, Danden Swift, my rogue has no regard for the law but he's certainly a good guy fighting for Dasaria. He kills Nerglings in town whenever he wants which is an act of good, but is very chaotic.

It is I guess a chaotic good act.. but kinda should make you KOS with in a very short space of time.. so unless Danden also has a very low intelligence he'll stick to doing outside town..

(Still don't see how is that good an act.. I know you can argue that Nerg's are evil... and therefore its a 'good' act.. but seems to be more chaotic neutral to me..

but.. still close to call...)