The nature of evil - and the paladins detect evil ability

Muletang · Post by **Muletang** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 6:42 am

who made you judge jury and executioner just because you believe in 'your' god? Bog off and stop killing people, as much as you don't like it, you have no right to stop someone being evil - they probably don't like your goody goody meh meh meh im a lordy moo moo attitude either. Warn as many people as you like, expose in the crowd, but everyone else only has your word for it.

((directed at the paladin, not you rambly me old fruit

)

lankycheese · Post by **lankycheese** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:25 am

who made you judge jury and executioner just because you believe in 'your' god?

Why the gods did of course ^^ And remember in Dasaria the gods are definatly known to exist, whether or not people put faith in them or worship them is another story. But people know for sure they are up there.

Boon · Post by **Boon** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 7:47 am

Ramblinwomble wrote:Thanks Boon interesting article

Boon wrote:Hmmm....I can't totally agree, sorry. Yes, I agree what a paladin is, but I can't see any justification why they should just go around killing everyone they detect as evil. Now they would never associate with evil or party with it, but just to go around and kill someone they detected as evil is just not right.
You're right, it's socially inappropriate to kill people. Let me spin this a little though.

You are, for arguments sake, a Paladin. You meet an old man and, as you shake his hand, you know beyond any doubt, (because you are infallible in this regard), that the person you have just met is evil.

Not occassionally rude, or petty, or subject to poor hygene, or short changing their customers. They are evil, they exist to further the goals of evil either through lawful, neutral or chaotic means.

You know they are evil. They will do wrong and cause harm to other people in some way. It is their nature and you know this infallibly.

What do you do?

I have no idea. Would I strike down a defensless old man? Would I wait and find better reason, for everyone else, to smite the old git? What if it is not himself that is evil, but something he carries? Or maybe he's possessed by some evil force he is knows nothing about. I have no idea what I would do.

I might also be looking at this from an OOC point of view as well. Would I a level 20 paladin smite the 5th level newcomer, because I sensed his bad evil ways? Doubt it, because there is a person behind that character. Now I would RP threaten the -bleep- out of him or maybe find justification to throw him in the hooscow where he can have his evilgasms privately. But...I'm getting off track here.

Carry on.

Brigadier Syndir Isendur · Fri Jul 08, 2005 8:41 am

Cheese has the Brigadier's offical endorcement. His post was dead on, even the batman part.

Oosey · Post by **Oosey** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 10:49 am

Haha, nice

Lets say I were the Paladin, from an IC perspective perhaps I would question the old guy, keep a careful eye on him and make sure nothing was going on that would affect innocents. I mean... if he was evil enough to threaten the lives of innocents... then it would be no trouble to slay him on the spot, if he was evil enough to steal ale I might preach the ways of good?

Rethinking it... batman might just be a paladin, at first I thought he was too dark, but then I realised... he's only dark and angry like... towards evil which is exactly what one would expect from a Paladin. I thought.. batman is way too rougey like to be a paladin.. then I realised.. he never picks pockets or steals, he does keep to the shaddows, but by no means does that make him a non-paladin.

Meldvion · Post by **Meldvion** » Fri Jul 08, 2005 11:58 am

Hrm... this discussion is still going as strong as ever, I see. I might as well throw some of my own thoughts into the mix!

One quick note before I begin - These are all my own thoughts and speculations and as such they are -not- to be taken as facts. There's nothing absolute in this matter, I'm afraid. At least not yet. </Covering his behind from eventual flaming>

First of all, there are more ways to defeat the evildoers than with the sword. This very much depends on the individual paladin to decide which action is best in the current situation. Dare he trust the law-enforcement and hand over the bad guy to them or will he take matters into his own hands, settling things for good? The situation itself is very important to how the paladin will react. Simply disregarding the laws of Dasaria is not what I would call good paladin behavior. Why? Because they are not laws that are evil in nature. Our job is not only to "smite evil Bash Bash Bash" but also to defend and protect the innocent from any eventual harm including that which may sprout from seeing paladins butchering people out on the streets of your little quiet (Well...) village. The laws are there for a reason, and as a lawful creature we should see that ignoring them might lead to unwanted consequences. This is very bluntly put, but running around and making people's heads cave in right in front of an entire village who has no idea what the hell you are doing is not very "Thought out", "planned" or "organized" (Won't someone think of the children?!?).
If, however, there should be a law that stated "Please, allow Maelstrom to eat one of your babies each time you pronounce the vowel 'A' " it, of course, would not be followed by the paladins. Not only because of the fact that paladins never get any of that sweet, sweet loving, but because the law in itself is quite evil. This is where the "Depending on the situation" comes in.

As it is right now, I see no reason for a paladin -not- to follow the laws of Daris. There are simply so many ways that they can serve their purpose without having to smite people left and right. Patience is indeed a virtue... Especially when you're waiting for that evil bastard to leave town so you can bring down some righteous wrath without being see by the ignorant masses!

I may think of more later , after I have read the response this gets.

Cheers!

Meldvion · Post by **Meldvion** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:55 am

Looks like I killed another topic... Cheers for me!

lankycheese · Post by **lankycheese** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 5:03 am

*hits Meldvion with the DM chaotic points wand* Murderer!

Meldvion · Post by **Meldvion** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 9:57 am

I know it must be hard for you to reply after seeing my ineffable wisdom at work, but please.. at least try.

Oosey · Post by **Oosey** » Sat Jul 09, 2005 10:36 am

It's a good point Meld... an Ordered character is unlikely to butcher that villianous evil type in front of the children, he/she would have some idea of the consequences of his/her actions... which is one of the differences between ordered and chaotic. I imagine he/she would do what is in the best interest for the greater good... i.e. not permanently scar innocent children, but rather set a good example and knock the fiend unconscious and drag it's ass to the prison. And it is generally the case that there is no reason for a Paladin to not follow the laws of Daris. I guess the hazy area is when a Paladin can detect evil... but being ordered, he'll use the knowledge with ineffable wisdom and serve the greater good