Possible New Trades System

[Loswaith]

Heres a bit of an idea for the change script, those that dont code may not understand the termanology.

Start with a merchant called Trades Master or some such,
When you talk to him he tells you that the system is a little different now and you will need to take a few notes.

so here goes

if has ATS skills above 0 (or even 50 since its not so hard to get that)
script give CNR trades book
CNR mining = get ATS mining rating
CNR smelting = get ATS blacksmithing
CNR weapon crafting = get ATS weaponcrafting
... and so forth for all the skills
remove ATS tokens
remove ATS token box
remove ATS trades manual

There we have it, I'm not personally sure how the CNR system works so their may be a need for some conversion between the systems.

As for how the top 10 come about that would likely take care of itself, it is in the system already.

A few questions with the CNR system that was a pain in the ATS, does it tell you if you have some of the ingrediance, and if you dont have enough, hopefully?
With 700 different recipies you gona get alot of the 80000{i think?} script errors

Does it tell you what you dont have but need? I hope it doesnt!

Also will the old recipies still be there??

Is there a link or some such to get more information about how the system works?

If implimented will it be when we upgrade to Shadows?[/quote]

[DeathMaster666]

Another idea... we can request to have our tokens converted so that Joker does not have to go through every account/player.

[BeyondRedemption]

Or we could just start over with a wicked new system.

[DeathKnight]

Or we could just start over with a wicked new system.

Or not. Getting max in weaponcrafting is easy, not so with all the other stuff loads of people have maxed in. This is starting to be like the char wipe thing with a few who don't have much to lose wanting the people who do to lose a lot.

[Chaos Charos]

[ Edited ]

[Depheant]

I would go for V's idea. Like I've said, I've mastered all of my primary trade skills [and all of my secondary skills] except the Bowerying and Fletching ones.

I would probably not start trade skills again if I were to start from 0, simply because I do not have the time any longer. As V said, trade skill are for me also a very big part.

You don't get about 2400 trade skill points without putting a lot of work in, but most importantly time... and I know the issue there.

If a script like V suggested could work, go for it. You put work into something, get something out of it...

[DeathMaster666]

I would go for V's idea. Like I've said, I've mastered all of my primary trade skills [and all of my secondary skills] except the Bowerying and Fletching ones.

I would probably not start trade skills again if I were to start from 0, simply because I do not have the time any longer. As V said, trade skill are for me also a very big part.

You don't get about 2400 trade skill points without putting a lot of work in, but most importantly time... and I know the issue there.

If a script like V suggested could work, go for it. You put work into something, get something out of it...

I agree, I only have 250 in weaponcrafting and 150 in mining and blacksmithing, but it's still hard work! I also rechange my vote to no.

[BeyondRedemption]

Or we could just start over with a wicked new system.

Or not. Getting max in weaponcrafting is easy, not so with all the other stuff loads of people have maxed in. This is starting to be like the char wipe thing with a few who don't have much to lose wanting the people who do to lose a lot.

I see your point. Please note that I do not want to intentionally hurt anyone out of spite, malice, or jealousy. I simply thought that if there is a new system, there would be a new way of raising the skills. One would have the chance to earn skill points in the new systems unique way.

Again, I see and concede your point. It would be unfair to those who have spent countless hours working on their trades. I am still in favor of the new system but if it can be worked out so people can keep their skills, all the better.

[DeathMaster666]

Again, I see and concede your point. It would be unfair to those who have spent countless hours working on their trades. I am still in favor of the new system but if it can be worked out so people can keep their skills, all the better.

I would have to say all or nothing here. If theres no way to somehow compensate people or allow people to keep their skills, then theres no way this would be popular.

[GM Joker]

The first post in this thread stated it pretty clearly. IF we do go with this system, EVERYONE starts at zero. NO EXCEPTIONS

I just got done removing all the ATS from a copy of the trades server. I started this test mod on friday. Three days it took me to do this and I haven't even added CNR to it yet. I will have to do the same to Epic if we decide to go with CNR. I sacrificed a weekend for a test, and we still might not even go with this. Further, if this system is indeed better, I am willing to sacrifice ALL my trade skill points I earned with Hunar. That's approximatly 5 months of building trades skill points. Throw into that all the time I have put building, adding to and fixing the ATS and you have close to 7 months. I am willing to sacrifice all of it if it means bettering the server.

So, as you can see, I have as much if not more to lose than anyone. Sorry if I sound pissed in this post, but it has been a long weekend.

~Joker

[Fader Magee]

Or we could just start over with a wicked new system.

Or not. Getting max in weaponcrafting is easy, not so with all the other stuff loads of people have maxed in. This is starting to be like the char wipe thing with a few who don't have much to lose wanting the people who do to lose a lot.

Actually neither situation was about the have-nots wanting the haves to lose.
Both situations are about being willing to make a sacrifice to have a better gaming situation for all.

I've spent a lot of time crafting, but if the new system is better and easier and more stable I'd be willing to start over.

For some the game is about playing, for others it's about being better than everybody else....

[Commander R'ekaan]

I know I have put quite a number of hours into tanning, mining, smithing, bowyering, fletching, gemcutting, and jewelry making. Bowyering and fletching are nearly maxed, I started getting good at tanning and mining.

However, I would love to see a new and improved trade system. It sounds like one of the MAJOR positive points about this one will be low maintenance required by DM's. Considering the amount of time all the DM's put into keeping this world running, and Joker specifically puts into smoothing out rough spots in the Trades, I'd say that everyone ought to be jumping on board for a better, simplified trade system.

Also, from the description, while there are a few things that would be missing, this system is set up to include a good number of the features that players have been requesting lately. The ability to add new crafted items. Player controlled merchants. New skills.

So you lose something to get all this. Ok, fine. That's life. It is exceedingly rare that there isn't some sort of cost involved in getting the truly important things you want. Skills can be remastered. It should be quicker this time, since you will have a better idea what's required when you start.

[/soapbox]

[jverz]

You told me once that you reached the maximum number of items possible in the game. Will this system increase that cap or just change the items we already have?

I for one am in full favor of a new system. The ATS system was so poorly made; and a pain to use from the users end.

[Timothy Ashton]

Remember one point that both the ATS and the new system will use.

-Recipies for items-


Now...think on this. When you've mastered weaponcrafting (400 out of 400 points) you then suddenly have the option to make a dozen or so MORE items BESIDES what you learned as you went up, AS WELL AS the other couple of items that were unique as you went up (ie, flame dagger)

Now..to make them, you went out and learned hte recipies, and thus, you truly were a Master, as you knew the recipies for the items you could make.

Now...suddenly you're a master weaponcrafter in the new system. You've got a lot of weapons you can make, both at the end when you reach master, and the ones you learned as you went up the ranks. OH! WAIT A MINUTE! You didn't learn how to make the weapons as you trained, NOR do you even know what type of material gives what attribute! Why? Because you were handed the title of "Master Weaponcrafter" but no knowledge of how to work your trade.

In essence, you're still starting from scratch, as you're still going to have to go out, find the materials you need, and what they do, as well as how to work with them to ply your trade, just like those that started with 0.

[Loswaith]

Personally I'm reserved with a new system, cause I know nothing about it.. when I first heard about the ATS system it was made out to be alot better that it actually was, sounds better.. but can NWN handle it.

Im also one for using the devil you know that the one you dont, the CNR system does sound better, but to date I've had no real problems with the ATS system either.

I personally believe Vvulfen has earned his title of Grand Master weaponsmith, I know all the special recipies 'cept Baradol's blade, and dont believe Vvulfen needs to know it, it's a personal design of Dragom's and I think it should be that way.
I've had help getting there and appreciate all the tips and hints I have been given, along the way.

Vvulfen also has the reputation that goes with the being a grand master, especially if all the work/ requests I get is any indication, and thats how I wanted Vvulfen to be, and I dont particulary want to see that go.

As with the ideas to covert them over I understood that this wasn't likely to happen, but thought it may be an option since I'm willing to put the work in to do it, which was more the point.. if it cana be done or the GM's dont want it done thats their choice, and its fine with me.

Issues I see with the new system may be these:
With over 700 recipies a crafter will not discover most of the cause of the sheer need for all those items littering your inventory will cause constant errors.

The potential to add recipies is nice, but what stops a 'disruptive' player (we do have those) making a +5 weapon with large elemental damage of all types, made from a few bits of copper. This I'd hate to see happen.

These two may not even be an issue, I know nothing about the CNR system so can only hypothsise [sp?].

I do apoligise to Joker and anyone else if my comments or remarks seemed like I didnt listen, or if they offended.
I'm well aware of the work Hunar has put into his trades, and a big part of my reasons for getting Vvulfen to the point with his trade skills was inspired by Hunar.

I was just putting up ideas that I thought would balance the effort people have spent.

Given for the server if the CNR system works out as expected, it will be good for the server (provided custom recipies dont get out of hand), a complete character wipe would be good for the server as well, though alot dont want that either.

I believe Drake said it once (I think it was Drake), and I feel it sums it up well:
** It would be bad for me, but good for the server. **