Reminder to American Dasarians!
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Kell
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I loathe voting, to be honest. I don't see why we should vote when the government doesn't listen to the people anyways.
Like this new healthcare thing they are going to implement next year? The poor wont be able to get securance anymore, it will only be available for those who can afford it. 1200 EUROS a year. Per person.
Sure, you can ask for government fundings on that, but they will take those funds from your other fundings, of course. So in the end, you'll be screwed if you have no money.
Saw this form yesterday, of a woman. She had to quit her healthcare-home-services because next year she can't afford it anymore. Now this woman may be blind, deaf, no arms, cripple and all those things. But she wont get any help. Because she's not rich.
And there are many people like that. And holland does NOT agree with its government on it. Except for maybe the rich, who can afford it anyways.
Still they do it. I don't know why, I don't see the use in milking your own people and kicking them when they are already down. I suppose they have their reasons, but this thing is just turning back time 50 to 100 years.
Why not vote? Because they don't listen to us anyways. They simply don't. And saying that if you don't vote you don't have a right to complain is utter bs in my books. Even when I don't vote, I have a very good right to complain, expecially when they are cutting in MY wallet. I work hard for the money that is there and when they already steal half of what I make with their taxes, they should keep their paws off the rest.
A government is supposed to take care of its people. Not rob them clean and kick them when they are already down.Even when they don't vote. Because not voting is not a reason for them to say; oh you didn't vote, therefore you're not dutch/english/american/chinese anymore.
Like this new healthcare thing they are going to implement next year? The poor wont be able to get securance anymore, it will only be available for those who can afford it. 1200 EUROS a year. Per person.
Sure, you can ask for government fundings on that, but they will take those funds from your other fundings, of course. So in the end, you'll be screwed if you have no money.
Saw this form yesterday, of a woman. She had to quit her healthcare-home-services because next year she can't afford it anymore. Now this woman may be blind, deaf, no arms, cripple and all those things. But she wont get any help. Because she's not rich.
And there are many people like that. And holland does NOT agree with its government on it. Except for maybe the rich, who can afford it anyways.
Still they do it. I don't know why, I don't see the use in milking your own people and kicking them when they are already down. I suppose they have their reasons, but this thing is just turning back time 50 to 100 years.
Why not vote? Because they don't listen to us anyways. They simply don't. And saying that if you don't vote you don't have a right to complain is utter bs in my books. Even when I don't vote, I have a very good right to complain, expecially when they are cutting in MY wallet. I work hard for the money that is there and when they already steal half of what I make with their taxes, they should keep their paws off the rest.
A government is supposed to take care of its people. Not rob them clean and kick them when they are already down.Even when they don't vote. Because not voting is not a reason for them to say; oh you didn't vote, therefore you're not dutch/english/american/chinese anymore.
Kell Dy'ner, Archcriminal of Daris
Well Kell, honestly, as much as I love you :) I couldn't disagree with that sentiment more!
I never feel more patriotic than when I just voted. Yes! It's the greatest feeling in the world, living in a free country. We, decide how to run the country. We decide what laws we are to live under. It is our proudest day, and our greatest institution.
Not only that(!) but - where do you think "the government" gets it's money from in the first place? I'll give you a hint..... it's you! (Subtlety... thy name is j4.) Wishing for "the government" to provide something to you is illusionary at best.
Look, lets say this lady needs $1200 for a year of health insurence. Well, ok. We could raise her taxed by $1200 and then give her "free" health insurence - but honestly! What good does that do?
Can that possibly be more efficient? No! All you end up doing is creating a new government office - adding another layer of people who are MANAGING, not PRODUCING. Now you have all their paychecks to pay too! Worse, all those workers are now filing paperwork and are unavailable to become ambulance drivers, paramedics, nurses, doctors and surgeons.
Having "the government" pay for something doesn't make the cost go away. It just renames the cost to "Taxes". It does nothing to actually lower them.
CONCLUSION - (yes, the rum has been good to me tonight)
Imagine you ran for office. You promise changes. You promise to make it all better. And you win. Once you get there, you find out that you don't have any magic powers either - how are you going to delilver - raise taxes? Lower services? Shift things around? More of the same? And the people look at you and say "Bah! She didn't change anything, she doesn't care, she's just like the rest of them!"
No! You just didn't have any way to do it. And the cycle continues. People promise things without providing a way to accomplish them. And then they fail to accomplish them. And the voters vote them all out, and vote in new ones with new empty promises - and become disappoined again that they can't deliver either.
Stop thinking of the government as somone else, and start thinking of the government as yourself. You -are- the country. And the country is you. Thats the beauty of voting. And that is why my eyes fill with patriotic tears every time I vote. Because I take responsibility for leading my country.
The cycle will end when the people quit demanding something for nothing and look for ways to ACHIEVE what they want. This will not be described with words like "free" but rather with words like "build" and "work". Thats when you will see real improvement.
I never feel more patriotic than when I just voted. Yes! It's the greatest feeling in the world, living in a free country. We, decide how to run the country. We decide what laws we are to live under. It is our proudest day, and our greatest institution.
You can'tblame the government for that! Are they supposed to materalize it out of thin air? Limited resources is a fundamental fact of our existance! Listen, if the government could snap their fingers and give everyone a mansion, free healthcare, a sportcar, a yacht and a private jet - don't you think they would? Of course they would! They -must- move the funds from somewhere else - there is not magic source of inifinte funding. Put another way, what would you do differently? Saying "I wish we had all that" is not a plan for getting it!Sure, you can ask for government fundings on that, but they will take those funds from your other fundings, of course. So in the end, you'll be screwed if you have no money.
Not only that(!) but - where do you think "the government" gets it's money from in the first place? I'll give you a hint..... it's you! (Subtlety... thy name is j4.) Wishing for "the government" to provide something to you is illusionary at best.
Look, lets say this lady needs $1200 for a year of health insurence. Well, ok. We could raise her taxed by $1200 and then give her "free" health insurence - but honestly! What good does that do?
Can that possibly be more efficient? No! All you end up doing is creating a new government office - adding another layer of people who are MANAGING, not PRODUCING. Now you have all their paychecks to pay too! Worse, all those workers are now filing paperwork and are unavailable to become ambulance drivers, paramedics, nurses, doctors and surgeons.
Having "the government" pay for something doesn't make the cost go away. It just renames the cost to "Taxes". It does nothing to actually lower them.
The government isn't kicking anyone. The country is simply too poor to afford the level of health care you desire. Take the average salary. Thats the AVERAGE. From that you must pay all the per-person costs. That is how much there is, per person, to go around, including the rich and everyone else (that is why it is the average after all). If you want to have $1200/year coverage, it comes right out of that. The only way for "the government" to pay for that is to raise taxes by the same amount - that doesn't magically make it free. Not being able to afford everything people want is not kicking them!Still they do it. I don't know why, I don't see the use in milking your own people and kicking them when they are already down. I suppose they have their reasons, but this thing is just turning back time 50 to 100 years.
You can disagree all you want but that isn't going to cause doctors, amublences, hosptals, and medecine to appear out of thin air. You can vote EVERY SINGLE ONE of them out of office and the new people aren't going to have any special ability to produce this stuff that the old ones didn't have.And there are many people like that. And holland does NOT agree with its government on it.
Kell, my god! After everything else you said... I almost fell out of my chair when I read this! You are demanding that they provide you with "free" health care and then wondering why the need so much of your money? I'll give you a hint! The government gets it's money from you!I have a very good right to complain, expecially when they are cutting in MY wallet. I work hard for the money that is there and when they already steal half of what I make with their taxes
CONCLUSION - (yes, the rum has been good to me tonight)
Imagine you ran for office. You promise changes. You promise to make it all better. And you win. Once you get there, you find out that you don't have any magic powers either - how are you going to delilver - raise taxes? Lower services? Shift things around? More of the same? And the people look at you and say "Bah! She didn't change anything, she doesn't care, she's just like the rest of them!"
No! You just didn't have any way to do it. And the cycle continues. People promise things without providing a way to accomplish them. And then they fail to accomplish them. And the voters vote them all out, and vote in new ones with new empty promises - and become disappoined again that they can't deliver either.
Stop thinking of the government as somone else, and start thinking of the government as yourself. You -are- the country. And the country is you. Thats the beauty of voting. And that is why my eyes fill with patriotic tears every time I vote. Because I take responsibility for leading my country.
The cycle will end when the people quit demanding something for nothing and look for ways to ACHIEVE what they want. This will not be described with words like "free" but rather with words like "build" and "work". Thats when you will see real improvement.
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Kell
- WANTED: Dead or Alive
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When there are still people making tons of money per year, when there are still millions wasted on useless projects that never will be finished through simple, human errors, when the salaries don't raise, the rents just keep raising as well, everything becomes more expensive and the people become more poor, when we can spend millions on silly airplanes (JSF anyone?) that we really don't need (well that's my opinion)...
Sorry. I think this government could cut fundings somewhere else, instead of on its people.
Yeah, you might be right in most of what you're saying, and I'm very well aware of the fact that it's my money they use, that comes around and goes around, to benefit others but also to benefit things which really don't make sense to me. I'm not as daft to not see or understand that, heheh.
But I also see things happening around me, like well.. Art. In parks. Don't villages get funding for those type of things? Can't villages do with one artsubject less, and instead put that money in something lessay, useful? Or is that type of spending so important that people should have something to look at, eventhough they don't have the eyes anymore left because healthcare just isn't possible to pay for?
Sorry. I think this government could cut fundings somewhere else, instead of on its people.
Yeah, you might be right in most of what you're saying, and I'm very well aware of the fact that it's my money they use, that comes around and goes around, to benefit others but also to benefit things which really don't make sense to me. I'm not as daft to not see or understand that, heheh.
But I also see things happening around me, like well.. Art. In parks. Don't villages get funding for those type of things? Can't villages do with one artsubject less, and instead put that money in something lessay, useful? Or is that type of spending so important that people should have something to look at, eventhough they don't have the eyes anymore left because healthcare just isn't possible to pay for?
Kell Dy'ner, Archcriminal of Daris
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Evelond Formos
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Actually, Kell, from the parks I've been to, a lot of that art is donated. They don't always ask for art. People donate. I'm going to end my post like that, because I don't want to get in a big political debate right now.Kell wrote:When there are still people making tons of money per year, when there are still millions wasted on useless projects that never will be finished through simple, human errors, when the salaries don't raise, the rents just keep raising as well, everything becomes more expensive and the people become more poor, when we can spend millions on silly airplanes (JSF anyone?) that we really don't need (well that's my opinion)...
Sorry. I think this government could cut fundings somewhere else, instead of on its people.
Yeah, you might be right in most of what you're saying, and I'm very well aware of the fact that it's my money they use, that comes around and goes around, to benefit others but also to benefit things which really don't make sense to me. I'm not as daft to not see or understand that, heheh.
But I also see things happening around me, like well.. Art. In parks. Don't villages get funding for those type of things? Can't villages do with one artsubject less, and instead put that money in something lessay, useful? Or is that type of spending so important that people should have something to look at, eventhough they don't have the eyes anymore left because healthcare just isn't possible to pay for?
~Evelond~
"This world is completely opposite. Why do you think we drive on parkways and park on driveways?" - Evelond Formos
"This world is completely opposite. Why do you think we drive on parkways and park on driveways?" - Evelond Formos
Also keep in mind that different countries are governed by different ways, even though they might share the same title as "democratic".
I have to agree with Kim though, most governments should aim their pockets in a few different directions.
For instance, Canada has one fo the best health care systems in the world, but the rest is spent ridiculously. We have a completely -useless- appointed Senate who gets paid alone about a hundred grand per member, and I beleive there's about a hundred of em' at the moment. So that's about 10 million dollars right there being paid to someone to pass a bill, which they are basically forced to do because they're appointed, not elected, and if they refuse they'll lose their position, which makes them in my mind, useless. And not to mention that just last year 80 million big ones just went "missing", from the tax payers pockets.
But you should still vote, for the sole purpose to pick which one of the crooks are the lesser of evils.
I have to agree with Kim though, most governments should aim their pockets in a few different directions.
For instance, Canada has one fo the best health care systems in the world, but the rest is spent ridiculously. We have a completely -useless- appointed Senate who gets paid alone about a hundred grand per member, and I beleive there's about a hundred of em' at the moment. So that's about 10 million dollars right there being paid to someone to pass a bill, which they are basically forced to do because they're appointed, not elected, and if they refuse they'll lose their position, which makes them in my mind, useless. And not to mention that just last year 80 million big ones just went "missing", from the tax payers pockets.
But you should still vote, for the sole purpose to pick which one of the crooks are the lesser of evils.
In a recent poll, more than 80 percent of Canadians rate the system “in crisis.” People wait for practically any diagnostic test, surgical procedure, or specialist consult.Oye wrote:For instance, Canada has one fo the best health care systems in the world
Norwood, Ont. has just one family doctor to service the entire town. The physician takes only 50 new patients a year. As a result, the town holds an annual lottery with the 50 winners getting an appointment.
According to Statistics Canada, approximately 1.2 million Canadians don’t have a family doctor and are looking for one.
Private health services are a booming business despite the fact that many operate in violation of federal law. The prime minister’s own family doctor runs the most successful chain of private clinics in the country.
Citation
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GM Falcon
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Yea, Health Care in Canada could be a lot better. If you can get a family doctor, it's not so bad, but it's still bad. Waiting lists for surgeries are huge. I remember, when I was living in Barrie, sitting in the emergency room from 1:00am to about 6:00am just to get my asthma taken care of.
Now keep in mind, J4, that's mostly Ontario where the shortage is biggest. You get to the other provinces and it's decent. Ontario is a terrible place for health care.
Keep in mind though, if you need medical assistance and you're a Canadian, you will not worry about paying for the bill.
Now keep in mind, J4, that's mostly Ontario where the shortage is biggest. You get to the other provinces and it's decent. Ontario is a terrible place for health care.
Keep in mind though, if you need medical assistance and you're a Canadian, you will not worry about paying for the bill.
Yeah I know I just thought it was interesting.
I'll be the first to admit I am not fully up to speed on all the ins ans outs of Canada's health care system except that it is free and you frequently have to wait along time.
But aparently 80% of the Canadians think it is "in crisis". This is new, yes? That sounds pretty bad. Aparently they just had a vote of no-confidence or something... and health care was one of the issues.
And I really want to know why the prime minister is using a private physician. Thats just like a politician hehehe.
Five hours is pretty bad;; but every now and then that happens in the states, if they decide you aren't really an emergency.
Didn't your sister have to wait a really long time for some procedure? I hope it isn't inappropriate asking about your sister's medical condition. If so just ignore it (I don't mean to be rude).
I just saw that in the news and remembered Oye's post. And I thought, public opinion seems to have changed quickly.
I'll be the first to admit I am not fully up to speed on all the ins ans outs of Canada's health care system except that it is free and you frequently have to wait along time.
But aparently 80% of the Canadians think it is "in crisis". This is new, yes? That sounds pretty bad. Aparently they just had a vote of no-confidence or something... and health care was one of the issues.
And I really want to know why the prime minister is using a private physician. Thats just like a politician hehehe.
Five hours is pretty bad;; but every now and then that happens in the states, if they decide you aren't really an emergency.
Didn't your sister have to wait a really long time for some procedure? I hope it isn't inappropriate asking about your sister's medical condition. If so just ignore it (I don't mean to be rude).
I just saw that in the news and remembered Oye's post. And I thought, public opinion seems to have changed quickly.
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Muletang
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man, sounds like the UK health system - which rates as utter shite. years to wait for operations, lots of deaths attributed to infections picked up 'in' hospital, huge waits in A&E (thats ER to you yanky doodles) - I broke my wrist at school and was in casualty by about 09.30 - came away at about 19.00. Rubbish, but free aye.
I'm lovin the buzz over here in NZ, I get seen straight off and the care is groovin - but then I'm lucky enough to be able to pay.
I'm lovin the buzz over here in NZ, I get seen straight off and the care is groovin - but then I'm lucky enough to be able to pay.
I deserve a reward...cos I'm the best **** that you've ever had - Diggin the Grave.
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Dagger in, eyeball out.
~N'Asti~
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Feng N'asti - little sh!t
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Dagger in, eyeball out.
~N'Asti~
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Feng N'asti - little sh!t
Actually, as of late there's a thing going around right now putting people up in arms about the conservatists wanting to privatize health care here.
I supose I can't have a voice for the bigger cities such as Ontario, and I know the surgical lines can get pretty big, but from what I know of prices and everything compared to other countries, it really isn't that bad.
I supose I can't have a voice for the bigger cities such as Ontario, and I know the surgical lines can get pretty big, but from what I know of prices and everything compared to other countries, it really isn't that bad.
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GM Falcon
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I wouldn't go as far as to say it's in crisis. 80% is a big number though, and if my fellow Canadians feel that indeed, our health care system is in crisis, then something needs to be done (I'll admit myself, I don't know the ins and outs of our health care system).jhr4n wrote:Yeah I know I just thought it was interesting.
I'll be the first to admit I am not fully up to speed on all the ins ans outs of Canada's health care system except that it is free and you frequently have to wait along time.
But aparently 80% of the Canadians think it is "in crisis". This is new, yes? That sounds pretty bad. Aparently they just had a vote of no-confidence or something... and health care was one of the issues.
And I really want to know why the prime minister is using a private physician. Thats just like a politician hehehe.
Five hours is pretty bad;; but every now and then that happens in the states, if they decide you aren't really an emergency.
Didn't your sister have to wait a really long time for some procedure? I hope it isn't inappropriate asking about your sister's medical condition. If so just ignore it (I don't mean to be rude).
I just saw that in the news and remembered Oye's post. And I thought, public opinion seems to have changed quickly.
And yes, there was a no-confidence motion yesterday and as of now the Government has fallen in Canada. The Sponsership Scandal took the limelight, though, and health care a back seat (as usual).
I'm concerned about the Conservatives. I'd rather see the Government repair our medicare as opposed to privatizing it. Maybe a comfortable median?
And I'm sure my sister won't mind, J4. She's pretty relaxed about that sort of thing. And you're right, the wait was long. I wouldn't base that on much, though. At the time we lived in Barrie, one of the fastest growing cities in Canada with one hospital that had difficulty keeping up with the population growth. Hardly representative of the rest of the country.
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Jehannum
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Its pretty interesting here in the US now. We are seeing quite a few clinics open up that refuse to accept insurance at all, but only work on a cash basis. The services however must be paid for at the time of service, but they are much much less expensive due to the savings the doctors get w/o having to essentially wait 3 or 6 months to be paid for work done.
One of our customers is one such doctor. He works in the Emergency Room on some days and on others he works at his own private clinic. I think its very refreshing, though I dont go there for healthcare.
It is nice to know that you do have a choice, and like j4 says..You pay for it...now or later...for your own or someone elses. It all gets paid for by someone's hard work.
One of our customers is one such doctor. He works in the Emergency Room on some days and on others he works at his own private clinic. I think its very refreshing, though I dont go there for healthcare.
It is nice to know that you do have a choice, and like j4 says..You pay for it...now or later...for your own or someone elses. It all gets paid for by someone's hard work.