Paladins in concept

[ironchicken]

I thought do you want a Pally guild was going off topic. so I thought the what makes a paladin debate was best suited to a seperate thread.

Give me a quick overview of how it would be possible with a story.

First a view of alignment (a reasonable view not the only view) :

Lawful= follow the law, promote order, the means is the ends
Chaotic= free will, breakdown the systems that dont suit, laws are a guide

Good= the whole comes before the self, aid others, promote society as a concept
Evil= seek power, you only climb by treading on others, greed

Now Nergal: Nergal is the lord of the afterlife, lord of war and the ultimate judge. as each soul is delivered to him he judges whether their spirit is true and decides on their existence in eternity. He is evil because he seeks power (he conquered the afterlife) but he also is the ultimate law. His judgements follow the path of true neutral and his fairness in his judgements is for the greater good.

Good, evil law and chaos are all sides of the world what is important is the truthfulness of the soul. I travel the earth seeking out those that have lost the way. Seeking the weak souls without the resolve to follow their path. Where I can I am a sheperd returning them to their path and where they are lost I send them to my lord with haste so that others may not be corrupted. I am a paladin of Nergal, his first judge on the mortal plane.

[BeyondRedemption]

YES!!!!

This is the way to do it...not the way Zenthrax tried...but this way. Pure genius. I'd love to join such an order. Man it would be fun. PM me if you might be interested.

[Jimmy]

Sounds like a Blackguard to me. Has got the evil god as well. Killing an innocent life for any reason is an act of evil. As I've said before...Good and evil is not a point of view or perspective, they are real sides in a never-ending war.

[Loki]

Hehe yer a cunning so and so Ironchicken...

Still lookin' for the flaw in yer arguement..

Bah! Sign me up as well!

[BeyondRedemption]

Nope.

The blackguard epitomizes evil. He is nothing short of a mortal fiend. The quintessential black knight, this villain carries a reputation of the foulest sort that is very well deserved. Consorting with demons and devils serving dark deities, the blackguard is hated and feared by all. Some people call these villains anti-paladins due to their completely evil nature. Their black hearts revel only in darkness.

Not a blackguard at all.

[Boon]

Very nicely done, IC.

But..

I can't see it within this world with all the past storylines. Just doesn't make sense. And remember, before I'm flamed, it's just my opinion.

Take a look at Nergal's dominions taken from the world background section. Death, Evil, and Destruction. Nergal is also the god plague, pestilence, fire, battle and the desert. I mean would a LG Paladin actually follow a god like this?

Remember...it's only my opinion and observation.

[Jimmy]

Not a blackguard at all.

Nor a Paladin. Boon's right on the money in my opinion.

[Fera'Vanna Rilynn'lylth]

Taking it back to basic's

"Paladins take theirs adventures seriously,and even a mundane mission is in the heart of the paladin, a personal test - an opportunity to demonstrate bravery, to learn tatics, and to find ways to do good. Divine power protects these warriors of virtue, warding off harm, protecting from disease, healing and guarding against fear. The paladin can also direct this power to help others, healing wounds or curing diseases, and also use it to destroy evil. Experienced paladins can smite evil foes and turn away undead."


But I have to say, very good IC post by Ironchicken

[jhr4n]

That's fine with me as long as you help those in need, protect the weak and the helpless, never disregard a call for help unless your own life is in danger, never knowingly or willingly commit a evil act, and do not abide by the company of those who are evil.

[Mon-Da-Oth]

Is a new order to be found among the followers of Nergal? I would imagine that he will spend lots of time clearing out the coruption with in the sect. Not to mention the mis-understood hatered that would be directed towards him for simply following Nergal. This could be really cool. I can't wait to see how it turns out if this follows through.

[GM Falcon]

Tossing the PHB out the door for a minute...

Dasaria has never really fully followed the D&D Rulebook, but it is important to stay within the dotted lines, so to speak. It all depends on the character, rather then the class. If a Blackguard can follow and uphold the law, maintain a sense of righteousness and good through... alterior means, then great, that would make an interesting character with a challenge to pull off.

I know of one Blackguard on the server who is benevolent, law-abiding and generally good natured. This character isn't a anti-paladin, nor is he a child-murdering villian, but rather a "righteous" character deriving their power from somewhat... less then respectable means. A very interesting character that, to my eyes, seems very difficult to play.

The character I'm talking about was once a member of the Nergalite church, and following along with his own storyline he broke off, having joined the church against his will initially. The taint remained but his benevolence he had in his previous life was reawakened. This to me is a very effective way to pull off the "evil but righteous paladin". (Apologies to the player If I misinterpreted. )

I once played an evil paladin named Jerrod Blackwynd, he was once a Paladin of Utu, but due to a strange problem that has plagued him since he was born, he has always dealt with "demons" that haunted him. Struggling to follow his moral compass and guidelines set forth, he tried to ignore the demons within him and fight this internal battle with all his will power. Inheriently evil but trying in vain to resist these foreboding temptations, I thought Jerrod to be a pretty good Blackguard concept (despite being a Paladin, prior to the x-pak).

I've always liked the concept of the evil-good paladin, and when pulled off it can make for some very interesting roleplay. I like it.

Oh, wasn't Utu the god of judgement, who passed his verdict on souls? Roland once told me that, and I know it's on the memorial near the graveyard. Just a minor thing.

- Falcon

[BeyondRedemption]

Very nicely done, IC.

But..

I can't see it within this world with all the past storylines. Just doesn't make sense. And remember, before I'm flamed, it's just my opinion.

Take a look at Nergal's dominions taken from the world background section. Death, Evil, and Destruction. Nergal is also the god plague, pestilence, fire, battle and the desert. I mean would a LG Paladin actually follow a god like this?

Remember...it's only my opinion and observation.

Because without evil, destruction, plague, and pestilence there is no opportunity to be good in contrast to it.

Anyway, as far as the sending of souls to Nergal whom stray from their paths and refuse to return, it is not malevolent at all. This is the most good and righteous act the Paladin can imagine. If allowed to go on living and leading a wicked life, surely the punishment given to them in the afterlife would be greater than if it were abruptly stopped immediately. In the eyes of the Paladin, he is not doing evil but rather GREAT good.

[jhr4n]

Withou evil there can be no good. Therefore evil is good.

George Orwell please call your office.

That argument doesn't only lead to a contradiction, it -is- a contradiction and doesn't even require refutation.

What a shambling mound of confusion! Hahahahaha, I am trying not to laugh out loud but I can't help it.

Doesn't even have to be good and evil. Just pick any two opposites and drop them in and it STILL WORKS: Good is evil. War is peace. Freedom is Slavery. Life is death.

OMG that is funny.

[Winky Willis]

All this talk of evil and good made me think back to some of the Dragon Lance books.. I read them a long time ago so the details might be a bit sketchy... wasn't there a part where a priest actually controlled a whole city under the guise he was benevolent and good... but actually he was gathering all the beggars,sick and other religions followers up and enslaving them. I think he wore some kind of mask that made him look angelic to.. it kinda made me think of when good.. goes bad so to speak.

I suppose if a paladin was to go that bit to far.. as in clensing evil it could quite easily flip into that kind of situation. Like he started hunting down Peribo cause he had fiddled someone out of money.. or Bearis was watering his ale down... the actual lengths someone could go to being "good" to perfection are pretty scary.

When does someones belief in something "good" get to the point that their fanatical behavour gets beyond the bounds of acceptable social boundaries.

[Jehannum]

I dont buy a nergalite paladin, sorry.

Its possible to rationalize anything if you twist it, turn it, roll it up in a little ball and spead it out again enough times.

I dont think we would be having this discussion if the blackguard class was as pvp-powerful as the paladin, and I really believe that.